From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Fri Nov 08 09:30:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Nov 2002 17:30:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 91183 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 17:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2002 17:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 17:30:10 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18ACxJ-0005Oq-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:30:05 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18ACwd-0005OI-00; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:29:23 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mrin02.spray.se ([212.78.193.8] helo=mrin02.st1.spray.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18ACwX-0005O4-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:29:17 -0800 Received: from lmin04.st1.spray.net (lmin04.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.104]) by mrin02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177D42417A0 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:28:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-66-21.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.66.21]) by lmin04.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6007F1C089 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:28:35 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: importing ro Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:30:28 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021108004315.GC22931@digitalkingdom.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 2540 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Robin: > On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 12:38:58AM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > > xod: > > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, And Rosta wrote: > > > > > > > I had forgotten that you don't accept > > > > > > > > ro broda cu brode > > > > = ro da poi broda cu brode > > > > It's legitimate by simple logical and linguistic criteria > > Is it? > > That seems to me like debating that > > All As > > is equivalent to > > All Xs such that X is an A > > Debating that equivalence seems amazingly non-sensical to me. In fact, > that is exactly how I was tought to convert natural-language sentences > with 'all' in them into predicate logic, IIRC The equivalence you state is a fact about the correspondences between English sentences and their logical meanings. In principle, Lojban could operate with different correspondences, so long as they were compatible with the guiding principles of Lojban. In practise, the current choice comes down to whether you want {ro broda cu brode} to mean the same thing as {ro broda ga na broda gi brode}. It really is up to us to choose; neither choice is intrinsically right or wrong. --And.