From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Thu Nov 21 15:16:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 23:16:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 77244 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 23:16:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 23:16:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 23:16:29 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18F0Yf-0002DO-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:16:29 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18F0Ya-0002D7-00; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:16:24 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.111]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18F0YV-0002Cx-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:16:19 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-68-176.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.68.176]) by lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98B71E795 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:15:46 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: mi nanca li (was: Re: Newbie says hi Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:17:47 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021121163044.GA16696@allusion.net> X-archive-position: 2663 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jordan: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 02:06:36PM +0000, And Rosta wrote: > > pier: > > #> How can I say "I'm 18 years old." I didn't find an appropriate > brivla. And > > #> expressing my birthdate seems unhandy > > # > > #{mi nanca li 18}. This is an idiom; taken literally it refers to > your whole > > #lifespan, which you haven't finished so you don't know ledu'u do > nanca li #xo > > > > Idioms are very mabla toljbo, and hence {mi nanca li 18} is too. We need > > a better way to say it, which generalizes to all measurements of duration: > > Ok this is a load of crap. You guys are ignoring x3 of nanca; > there's nothing at all idiom-like or figurative about this usage > > The elided zo'e could mean, for example: > mi nanca li paso zo'e > mi nanca li paso le kuspe be le te jbena kubi'o le cabna > > You guys are assuming it means le kuspe be le te jbena kubi'o lemu'e > mrobi'o I generally don't understand what "by standard" places mean, but I find it hard to construe a "by standard" place as defining the event expressed by the x1. When a person is seen as an event, I do indeed see that even as delimited by birth and death, at least by default. I certainly don't see it as at all plausibly delimited by birth and the present time. "2002 is currently 11 months in duration by some standard" seems silly and false to me, as does "1992 is ten years in duration by some standard" (ten years from beginning to now). --And.