From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 27 12:54:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Nov 2002 20:54:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 4128 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 20:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2002 20:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 20:54:10 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18H9CE-0003Xq-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:54:10 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18H9C6-0003XS-00; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:54:03 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net ([68.1.17.243]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18H9C2-0003XF-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:53:58 -0800 Received: from nora.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021127205325.ZPEV2203.lakemtao02.cox.net@nora.lojban.org> for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:53:25 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021127153109.02e1c570@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: noras@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:52:20 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: How would you say "plural" and "singular"? In-Reply-To: <012e01c29676$774149f0$0300a8c0@avitallap> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 2717 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: noras@lojban.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Nora LeChevalier From: Nora LeChevalier Reply-To: noras@lojban.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out At 07:38 PM 11/27/02 -0500, you wrote: >I was attempting to say <"Dog" is the singular form of "Dogs"> > >My solution was: > > >Now, that seems like it really sucks. Anyone have a better idea? Well, whatever we do will be kludgy because singular/plural is not a lojban concept. But, pamei valsi seems to imply that "dog" is a single-word concept (as opposed to, for example "hot dog", which is a two-word concept). I'd try for something like pamei sumti valsi (trying for "singleton-sumti word") for singular. Plural is not as simple. Some languages have more than one type of plural (Russian 2-4 is sometimes different from 5-or-more); and, as I noted in "le glibau cu cizra" on the Wiki, zero takes the PLURAL (at least in English). In fact, since "plural" and "singular" are so quirky (1/2 cup, .8 liters), you'd do much better with a lujvo that would only have to hint strongly at the meaning. BTW, "dog" is NOT the plural of "dogs" if you are talking about the verb (as in "They dog his footsteps"); just the reverse! Though we don't normally label a verb "singular" or "plural" - merely "agreeing with the subject". -- mi'e noras noras@lojban.org Nora LeChevalier