From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Nov 27 13:40:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 25473 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.88) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:40:28 -0800 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: How would you say "plural" and "singular"? Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2002 21:40:28.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A491180:01C2965D] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la noras cusku di'e >But, pamei valsi seems to imply that "dog" is a single-word concept (as >opposed to, for example "hot dog", which is a two-word concept). I agree. >I'd try >for something like pamei sumti valsi (trying for "singleton-sumti word") >for singular. But that suggests things like {blanu}, which are single-sumti words. Tanru will always be too ambiguous for this sort of thing. They can be used only if context makes it fairly clear what we're talking about. I suggest: zoi gy dog gy sinxa lo'e pamei "Dog" refers to a singleton. zoi gy dog gy pavysinxa "Dog" is singular. zoi gy dogs gy sinxa lo'e za'umei "Dogs" refers to a more-than-one-tuple. zoi gy dogs gy za'u zei sinxa "Dogs" is plural. (How come there's no rafsi for {za'u}?) But how do we say that "dog" and "dogs" are related by the singular-to-plural relationship, i.e. "dog" is-the-singular-of "dogs" and "dogs" is-the-plural-of "dog"? Maybe something like: zoi gy dog gy pa zei za'u zei ckini zoi gy dogs gy "Dog" is in one - more-than-one - relationship to "dogs". Another possibility is: zoi gy dog gy pavysinxa sera'a zoi gy dogs gy "Dog" is singular with respect to "dogs". >Plural is not as simple. Some languages have more than one >type of plural (Russian 2-4 is sometimes different from 5-or-more); and, as >I noted in "le glibau cu cizra" on the Wiki, zero takes the PLURAL (at >least in English). Maybe singular/non-singular is a better descriprion for English. The we can say {pavysinxa} and {nalpavysinxa} and avoid {za'u}. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus