Subject: [lojban] Re: Specific example of Sapir-Whorf in English OR How Lojbanmade me think more clearly

From: Robin Turner <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 01:04:30 +0200

And Rosta wrote:
> Adam:
> 
>>>My point: The notion of "meant to be" is meaningless if the expresser does
>>>not believe in the existence of what is commonly reffered to as 'God' 
>>
>>I don't think that that's the case at all. "People are supposed to pay
>>taxes", "People are supposed to help each other", "People are supposed
>>to think rationally", etc., etc. All of these beliefs presuppose
>>certain laws or rules, I guess, but I think that they're all held
>>completely consistently by many atheists 
> 
> 
> But with some sense either of moral imperatives or else some underlying
> design to the world -- = 'god' in a very very broad sense.
> 
> 
>>>The sentence "Homosexuals aren't supposed to
>>>be" would be represented as <zo'e AMUR loi nanmu lenu na gletu loi nanmu>,
>>>or in Hebrew, "GVARIM AMURIM LO LISHKAV IM GVARIM" 
>>
>>Since that sentence doesn't suggest any animate being which prescribes
>>the event to happen (the English is "Men are supposed to not sleep
>>with men"), 
> 
> 
> One encounters two sorts of religious arguments against homosexuality,
> one is that "men are supposed to not sleep with men" -- i.e. it's
> a contravention of a prohibition -- and the other is that "men are
> not supposedto sleep with men", which is the idea that we should do
> only what we are supposed to do, a variety of the "if god had meant
> us to fly, he would have given us wings" argument. So on the one view,
> homosexuality contravenes a moral imperative, while on the other view
> it falls outside the divine design (and is therefore not sanctioned).
> 

I think "supposed to" or "meant to" are simply weaker - or perhaps more 
explicit - versions of "should". "Should" imples that if a person 
performs some action, it will significantly contribute to the 
realisation of some desired aim. Thus, "men are not supposed to sleep 
with men" implies that the event of men sleeping with men makes it less 
likely that some desired event will occur. The main difference between 
"supposed to" and "should" is that it places the desired event outside 
the person initiating the action which should or should not take place.

robin.tr

-- 
"Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun 
doing it."
- Linus Torvalds

Robin Turner
IDMYO,
Bilkent University
Ankara 06533
Turkey

www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin