From lojbab@lojban.org Sun Dec 01 16:04:32 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 238 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao02.cox.net) (68.1.17.243) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021202000430.PGZD2203.lakemtao02.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:04:30 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201184512.0312eb30@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 18:57:14 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Some concerns from a Lojban beginner In-Reply-To: <1038785193.18814.9.camel@norpan.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 12:26 AM 12/2/02 +0100, Martin Norb=E4ck wrote: >So, anyone wanting to have a way to incorporate Loglan words into >Lojban, please go ahead, but I won't be able to read them, I am not >interested in learning double sets of words. > >Changing the baseline words, the 1300 gismu, is also probably a >no-option. No one expects any Lojbanist to learn any Loglan words. The toggle is=20 primarily to enable a one-way transition from TLI Loglan to Lojban. It is= =20 one way, because Lojban is by far the better language, with the more active= =20 community; there are no advantages in moving the other way. >I thinks it's better to keep the languages separate and let people use >the one they think is better. The main purpose of the toggle/incorporation proposal is that it encourages= =20 TLI Loglanists to transition to Lojban. Depending on how they implement=20 the toggle and transition dialect, they can start using Lojban style and=20 syntax, then start using Lojban cmavo, and then start using Lojban=20 vocabulary as they learn it. It makes switching that much less=20 painful. More importantly, it de facto ends TLI Loglan as a separate=20 language without playing things out; even today there are people trying to= =20 revive Volapu:k which was effectively dead the day that Zamenhof published= =20 the Esperanto Fundamento. This makes it that much harder for those who=20 would try to continue it as a rival to Lojban, forcing every newcomer to=20 make a relatively uninformed choice between the two versions. >By the way, if anyone has a good method for learning words, let me know! LogFlash embodies the most successful algorithm for learning words by study= =20 that we've ever found, but it isn't "fun" for most people. Other than=20 that, trying to write in Lojban is the only way to really master the=20 vocabulary. lojbab --=20 lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org