From lojbab@lojban.org Sun Dec 01 17:17:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Dec 2002 01:17:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 43156 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 01:17:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2002 01:17:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao04.cox.net) (68.1.17.241) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 01:17:34 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021202011735.FSPA1248.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:17:35 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201200300.03259650@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 20:10:14 -0500 To: Subject: Re: [lojban] xo'a In-Reply-To: <02120114245304.24805@neofelis> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 02:24 PM 12/1/02 -0500, Pierre Abbat wrote: >On Sunday 01 December 2002 14:08, And Rosta wrote: > > pier: > > > Adding {xo'a ... hoa} to the grammar would require adding the entire > > > Loglan grammar to the Lojban one, and more besides, since the toggle > > > could occur in a variety of places in a sentence and we would have to > > > figure out what happens to grouping rules, terminators, etc. when > > > switching languages in the middle of a tanru. If we can't even publish a > > > list of corresponding cmavo, there's no way we can add {xo'a} > > > > i had assumed that the parser would simply switch off when it hits xo'a > > and switch on again when it hits hoa. Was that assumption wrong? > >How would you handle the following?: > >.i la djig. cusku lu doi talen xo'a nu jimta lu .i le vi po jimta hoa pu >spaji la talen. > >The languages are close enough that you can intermix them, but different >enough that this causes problems. A Romance example (since I know very little >Loglan): Ele enviou-me uma mensagem, que j'ai lue. Should the last word be >"lu"? The word "message" is masculine in French. I would suspect that the xo'a ... hoa string would be taken as non-Lojban "text" (and would be a rule at that level of the grammar). You would not mix languages freely in one sentence (except in the limited ways in which a "text" structure can be embedded inside a sentence). A transition dialect with Lojban cmavo and TLI gismu (as Belknap is asking for) would require a different toggle, but would require no grammar change at all (the toggle words could be UI). lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org