From sbelknap@UIC.EDU Mon Dec 02 08:24:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: sbelknap@uic.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Dec 2002 16:24:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 24137 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 16:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2002 16:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO birch.cc.uic.edu) (128.248.155.162) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 16:24:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17503 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 16:24:06 -0000 Received: from cis5044.uicomp.uic.edu (HELO uic.edu) (128.248.250.44) by birch.cc.uic.edu with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 16:24:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:25:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Loglan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Cc: To: "And Rosta" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.548) From: Steven Belknap X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810567 On Monday, December 2, 2002, at 07:07 AM, And Rosta wrote: > Steven: >> On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 05:14 PM, Invent Yourself wrote: >> >>> For heaven's sake! If someone is new to this whole mess, and after >>> reading >>> that hoary article they search and discover that there are two >>> existing >>> dialects now forty years on, and that one is alive and the other is >>> dying, >>> the furthest thing from their minds will be looking for a cmavo to >>> toggle >>> between them!! They will look for the best dialect, and learn it! If >>> they >>> mistakenly select Loglan, so be it >> >> More likely, they will conclude that we are fractured community of >> warring, clueless Bozos and avoid both lojban and Loglan > > I just tried googling for Lojban and for Loglan. 384000 hits for > Lojban. > 6750 hits for Loglan. (Volupuk, 29500; Esperanto, 1,080,000; Novial, > 2000; "Klingon" 398000, Tlingan, 46; Quenya, 35,200; Laadan 3300.) > So someone doing a bit of sustained investigation would soon realize > that Lojban is 57 times more active than Loglan... Note that Esperanto > has only 3 times more hits than Lojban. > > But I do think that it is important to work on reunifying the > language. Given that the old version seems to be dead, in practise > reunification means pointing out that Lojban is the living version > of Loglan, and this could be pointed out a little more prominently > in our official web presence. I don't see it as disrespectful to > TLI Loglan: we're not dissing the language, we'd just be pointing > out that it is moribund, and helpfully pointing out to newbies > who have heard of Loglan that the living community of Loglanists > is to be found in Lojbanistan. > > --And. > We agree. Loglan is dead, long live lojban. Now if the conquering heroes could stop their cock-walk strutting about, maybe we can build the community to the point where we beat Esperanto in a googlecount. Building a community is facilitated by making newbies feel welcome, even if they are Loglan oldbies. Perhaps the controversy can be summed up as follows: I believe there are about 500 old Loglanders who might be interested in learning lojban. xod believes I am wrong. This seems like a testable hypothesis to me: track 'em down and ask 'em. -Steven