From nessus@free.fr Thu Dec 05 01:35:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: nessus@free.fr X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 09:35:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 11135 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 09:35:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 09:35:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.19.254) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 09:35:41 -0000 Received: from mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.193) by mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr (6.7.010) id 3DEF189A000059B6 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:35:40 +0100 Received: from tanj (193.248.237.195) by mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr (6.7.010) id 3DEE017F0008316A for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:35:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c29c41$ad45b830$c3edf8c1@tanj> To: References: <02120414202304.01986@neofelis> Subject: Re: [lojban] cmegadri valfendi preti Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:34:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Lionel Vidal" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=47678341 X-Yahoo-Profile: cmacinf Pierre Abbat: > Assuming that the standard version follows the instructions above, process > {doias}. Looking backward, find {doi}. It is preceded by nothing, so break > it off. The result is two pieces, {doi} and {as}. But that is wrong, since > {doias} must have a pause before {as}. The alahum version would not > split it because {as} does not begin with a consonant. > On {doi'as}, however, the standard version would again break it into {doi} > and {'as}. {'as} would then be resolved as an error. The alahum version > would not break it, and {doi'as} would be resolved as a cmene. > So, for the standard version, should I look for a consonant or y'y after > the cmegadri? IMO, this is one flaw of the current algorithm. Trying to strictly follow CLL: -Any word starting with a vowel must be preceded by a pause -No cmene may include {la}, {la'i} {lai} or {doi} unless preceded by a consonnant -The ' is used only as a transition between to vowels *of the same word* (the * part is deduced from the first stated rule) You should reject {doias} and {doi'as} as errors, or be non conformant :-) > Another question: why is the cmegadri broken off from what precedes it, > instead of just breaking between the cmene and the cmegadri and leaving > the cmegadri to be found later? What about {MUstelaVIson} > and {muSTElaVIson}? How > should they be analyzed? Because when you make that break you *must* flag the cmegadri part as a cmegadri (otherwise a pause before the cmene would have been necessary), whereas a further parsing may change what you thought was a cmegadri to, say, a brivla ending... which would then invalidate your previously parsed cmene! (I hope I am clear enough :-) So: {MUstelaVIson} = {MUste la Vison} and {muSTElaVIson} is rejected because a brivla cannot end with a stressed syllable. Note that, while I consider that result correct, I find the error label quite unlogical: a forward parsing would give an error after parsing {muSTEla}, saying that a pause is needed before cmene {Vision}, which seems much more palatable: better error messages are another advantage IMO of a change of the current backward algorithm for a forward one. -- Lionel