From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Dec 05 13:58:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 21:58:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 58505 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 21:58:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 21:58:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 21:58:27 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18K40p-0002CL-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:58:27 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18K3zs-0002Bk-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:57:28 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-server2.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.39]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18K3zm-0002BV-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:57:22 -0800 Received: from macsrule.com (85.78.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.78.85]) by smtp-server2.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gB5LvKTd029970 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:57:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:57:40 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: Loglan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20021204213727.030d2980@pop.east.cox.net> Message-Id: <92FC5EE8-089C-11D7-A3CE-00039362FD2A@macsrule.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.548) X-archive-position: 3091 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rmcivor@macsrule.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robert McIvor From: Robert McIvor Reply-To: rmcivor@macsrule.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Mercredi, déce 4, 2002, at 21:47 US/Eastern, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > At 05:48 PM 12/4/02 -0500, John Cowan wrote: >> For some reason not known to me, Lojban adopted an extra constraint >> with >> the rafsi: no more than one CVV, one CCV, and one CVC. Loglan allows >> up to 3 rafsi, but there can be more than one of a given form. >> For example, felda (Lojban farlu) has rafsi fel, fed, fea. >> >> Lojbab, do you remember why this changed? > > It made the assignment job easier, as well as the job of learning the > rafsi: if you know there can only be one CVC, then if you know one, > then > there are no more. This was (I thought, and whoever I consulted > agreed) > better at addressing arguments that the rafsi system was difficult to > learn. The cost is the occasional hyphen that might be required by > one CVC > that could have been eliminated by having a second one. Given that we > could not eliminate more than a small fraction of such hyphens (I > think it > was under 5% and probably more like 1% of the set of hypothetical lujvo > used for tuning), easier learning took precedence. We decided long ago that learning rafsi by themselves was not particularly useful. Many are never used. We found learning rafsi by learning lujvo containing them was far more effective. Since all are also in the on-line dictionary, finding the gismo for an unfamiliar rafsi was only a matter of seconds since any serious reading and writing was usually done with the dictionary and parser open and available. > > In the 1994 retuning of rafsi assignments, we went even further, > eliminating some CVVs when there was a CCV and vice versa. > > (BTW, Thanks to Bob McIvor for speaking up. I don't have anything to > comment on his messages, but feel it far better when Bob speaks for TLI > interests rather than me.) > > lojbab > > -- > lojbab lojbab@lojban.org > Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. > 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA > 703-385-0273 > Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: > http://www.lojban.org > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >