Subject: [lojban] Re: cmegadri valfendi preti

From: Nora LeChevalier <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:52:39 -0500

At 02:20 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am calling {doi} a cmegadri for this purpose, even though it's not a gadri.
>
>According to BRKWORDS.TXT:
>
> 1) Names:
> a) If the last letter of the piece is a consonant, we have a name. A
> name must have a pause before it UNLESS it is immediately preceded by
> a /la/, /lai/, /la'i/ or /doi/ as a marker, and it cannot contain any
> of these markers unless the marker is immediately preceded by a conso-
> nant. So, look backwards from the end of the piece for any of the
> allowed markers. If we don't find one (e.g. /jonz/), then the whole
> piece has been resolved as a name.
> b) If you do find such a marker, then check what immediately precedes
> it. If there is nothing (e.g. /ladjAn/), or if a vowel precedes (e.g.
> /mivIskaladjAn./, break off the marker as a resolved piece (/la/), and
> what follows it is also a resolved piece, a name (/djAn/), leaving us
> with whatever preceded the marker, if anything, as still unresolved
> (/mivIska/).
> c) If what precedes the marker is a consonant (e.g. /karoslAInas/)
> then ignore the marker and continue looking backwards. This exception
> is allowed because /karos/ with no following pause cannot represent a
> separate word.
>
>I am doing two versions of the cmegadri finding routine, the alahum version
>and the standard version. The alahum version requires that the cmegadri be
>followed by a consonant; the standard version doesn't.
>
>Assuming that the standard version follows the instructions above, process
>{doias}. Looking backward, find {doi}. It is preceded by nothing, so break it
>off. The result is two pieces, {doi} and {as}. But that is wrong, since {doi
>as} must have a pause before {as}. The alahum version would not split it
>because {as} does not begin with a consonant.
>
>On {doi'as}, however, the standard version would again break it into {doi}
>and {'as}. {'as} would then be resolved as an error. The alahum version would
>not break it, and {doi'as} would be resolved as a cmene.
>
>So, for the standard version, should I look for a consonant or y'y after the
>cmegadri?
>
>Another question: why is the cmegadri broken off from what precedes it,
>instead of just breaking between the cmene and the cmegadri and leaving the
>cmegadri to be found later? What about {MUstelaVIson} and {muSTElaVIson}? How
>should they be analyzed?

You are doing a variant parse. Breakwords presumed a valid lojban speech 
stream according to the rules set forth for names (namely that they not 
include la/lai/doi unless preceded by a consonant). Therefore, my answer 
is that you should mark {MUstelaVIson) as muste-la-vison, and 
(muSTElaVIson} as an error, and also doi'as and doias as errors. I realize 
you are trying to enlarge the area of acceptable names, but (aside from the 
fact that I support the existing definition as baseline) I think you are 
doing the LISTENERS a disservice if you wish to have such things as 
{muSTElaVIson} as a name. The name-maker can take his/her time and analyze 
what he/she has built. The listener, however, may well be hearing it for 
the first time (and therefore cannot just pull it out as a known 
glob). And, the speech stream gives very little time for the listener to 
analyze new things; if she/he takes too long, the rest of the sentence is gone.

Think what the listener must go through:
"It ends in a consonant, so it has a name in there 
somewhere. Aha! There's the 'la'. Yup, there isn't a consonant in front 
of it. But, wait, the piece before it seems to have the accent in the 
wrong place. Is the whole thing a name? Is it an error on the speakers 
part? Or, after all this analysis have I just misremembered where the 
stress was?"

-- 
mi'e noras [email-masked]
Nora LeChevalier