From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Dec 06 18:08:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Dec 2002 02:08:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 14860 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 02:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2002 02:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 02:08:24 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18KUOG-0006tT-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:08:24 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18KUO9-0006tA-00; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:08:17 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18KUO3-0006t0-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:08:12 -0800 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gB72EQG9094606 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:14:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gB72EQOU094605 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:14:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:14:26 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Old questions, still unanswered. Message-ID: <20021207021426.GA94336@allusion.net> References: <20021207010428.GB93052@allusion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="opJtzjQTFsWo+cga" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 3193 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:59:55AM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > Jordan: > > On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 12:49:20AM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > Avital: > > > > a) Is "ko'a broda je brode" equivelant to "ko'a broda gi'e brode"? > > >=20 > > > Yes, I think=20 > >=20 > > The correct answer is "no"=20 > >=20 > > "the rule of expansion into separate bridi simply does not always=20 > > work for tanru > > connection." > > in chap 14, sec 12, with example=20 >=20 > Avital asks if these two sentences are equivalent, and it is not > obvious to me how your quotation bears on this. Can you think of > values for ko'a, broda and brode that would make one sentence true > and the other false? I can't, but maybe you can, which is why I > hedged. If you can, give example values.=20 Here's the example regarding this in the book that I alluded to: Supposing Alice to be a person who lives in blue houses, then 12.6) la .alis. cu blanu je zdani prenu Alice is-a (blue and house) type-of-person. would be true, because tanru grouping with a jek has higher precedence than unmarked tanru grouping, but: 12.7) la .alis. cu blanu prenu .ije la .alis. cu zdani prenu Alice is-a blue person, and Alice is-a house person. is probably false, because the blueness is associated with the house, not w= ith Alice, even leaving aside the question of what it means to say ``Alice is a blue person''. (Perhaps she belongs to the Blue team, or is wearing blue clothes.) The semantic ambiguity of tanru make such logical manipulations impossible. --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE98VmCDrrilS51AZ8RAhKTAJ4v5JJwPYYtn2yYHjHXJBGjRmsjvwCcDdx1 jIV0auxnPNLyTdmBC2h4EEE= =OoR9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga--