From lojbab@lojban.org Fri Dec 06 19:59:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Dec 2002 03:59:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 34491 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 03:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2002 03:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao04.cox.net) (68.1.17.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 03:59:36 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021207035935.KWCG1248.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:59:35 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20021206223513.03a4fec0@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:45:28 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: cmegadri valfendi preti In-Reply-To: References: <003201c29d2c$90a68830$abc70950@tanj> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 12:49 AM 12/7/02 +0000, And Rosta wrote: >I'm not sure that you understood the point I was making. I was claiming >that the morphological rules are ALREADY too complex to be used in >real time. I think you are wrong, provided that we aren't inventing pathological borderline cases (like something that sounds like a full Lojban sentence ending with a consonant. Names are seldom so long that they will not be understood to be names without any special parsing. Indeed, in my experience, a name included in a Lojban utterance makes the whole thing easier to aurally parse. lujvo also are easy to hear because with longer ones, the penultimate stress tends to be emphasized more so as not to be heard as a secondary stress. Because lujvo are designed so that the front cannot fall off, only a REALLY long lujvo would be difficult to keep track of. fu'ivla, especially Type IVs, however, are irregular, and thus there are few aural patterns that distinguish them. I haven't heard spoken Lojban with a lot of fu'ivla in them, but I suspect that with fluent speech they will be the hardest to identify. >It is therefore irrelevant that making the rules even more >complex will make life even harder for the listener struggling to parse >in real time. I think the rules could not be simplified to the point >where they could be used in realtime, unless the entire morphology >was discarded and redesigned from scratch. Since real human beings have spoken and understood Lojban is real time (though Nick at full bore exceeds my capabilities, it is usually because he is using words I don't recall rather than that I can't break his speech into words), this sounds like a post-Apollo claim that the moon is really a lump of green cheese 20 miles up. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org