From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Dec 06 23:08:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Dec 2002 07:08:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 98693 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 07:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2002 07:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 07:08:16 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18KZ4S-0002Rw-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:08:16 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18KZ4Q-0002Rb-00; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:08:14 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18KZ4L-0002RN-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:08:09 -0800 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gB77EPG9001076 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:14:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gB77EPG1001075 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:14:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:14:25 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Aesthetics Message-ID: <20021207071425.GA713@allusion.net> References: <20021207014913.C85943-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021207014913.C85943-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 3204 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:56:10AM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, And Rosta wrote: > > I have in the past been quite shocked at your use of punctuation, e.g. > > guillemets, because it looks like a violation of audiovisual isomorphis= m. > > The Lojban philosophy was that all punctuation should be speakable, > > so if we write unspeakable punctuation, we aren't testing that design > > feature properly. >=20 > I have grown to dislike the habit of adding redundant punctuation marks > glued to their lojbanic analogues {?xu, to(, lu"}. I have less of a > problem with punctuation marks standing in for certain cmavo, though, > which we should be free to do if we are entitled to use orthographies as > far afield as Tolkein letters, and as long as we maintain a 1:1 mapping. The getting of a standardish 1:1 mapping is precisely the difficult part. Anyway it just plain looks worse in my view. Also I can't *stand* crap like "2moi". I see it and read "two moi", I can't read it remoi. Furthermore it looks like 1337-speak. > > My own preference is to omit as much as possible, including all > > fullstops and most apostrophes >=20 > Eliding apostrophies is just plain rude. It forces the reader, likely to > already have his hands full, to identify the impossible dipthongs; it > requires an intimacy with Lojban. Presumably And was indending to replace them with another letter? Anyway, imho eliding anything is just plain rude. None of use are compentent enough speakers to remember to pause for things like a cmene after mi'e and coi without it explicitly written. Of rudeness though, nothing rivals using all capital letters (which I've seen And do). --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE98Z/RDrrilS51AZ8RAmu7AJ43v8sYw0h4V7kTYbik78bYGsHEWwCgmTtx tBpbDMWFmj4kP08Cg4dIxdA= =JAlO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8--