From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Dec 07 18:02:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 02:02:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 12141 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 02:02:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 02:02:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 02:02:35 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18KqmB-0002yT-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:02:35 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Kqm8-0002yA-00; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:02:32 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Kqm3-0002rO-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:02:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA9F270D4 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:01:55 +0200 (EET) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp12.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.14]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4FAE27059 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:01:53 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3DF29BCF.1040601@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:09:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: More stuff References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021207122552.03ab9b50@pop.east.cox.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20021207184529.00a9ddc0@pop.east.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 3265 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Turner From: Robin Turner Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Robert LeChevalier wrote: > At 11:40 PM 12/7/02 +0000, And Rosta wrote: > >>You are likely right about the lack of redundancy, but (a) it is >>unlikely to be a frequent problem, given that word recognition uses >>pragmatic as well as phonetic clues, > > > On the contrary, it has already been a problem. TLI Loglan had it with > their numbers > (which are ni ne to te fo fe so se vo ve), which Bob Chassell and others > had problems with, so I made the Lojban set what it is now - yet people > object to re/rei. But we instituted our own redundancy problem with > se/te/ve/xe, a move that I much regretted later, but which was noticed in > 1989 when we first tried to have Lojban conversation. I suspect that when rapid, fluent Lojban conversation occurs, se/te/ve/xe will just be cognised as "the sumti aren't in the normal order" and context will do the rest. I used to do a similar thing when reading some of xod's outrageous fi-fie-fo-fum sentences ;-) robin.tr -- "Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it." - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin