From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Sat Dec 07 18:17:06 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 02:17:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 74507 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 02:17:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 02:17:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 02:17:06 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18Kr0E-0003BL-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:17:06 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Kr0B-0003B0-00; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:17:03 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.112]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Kr05-0003AU-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:16:57 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-58-82.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.58.82]) by lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B755B83A for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 03:16:54 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] typographical rudeness (was: RE: Re: Aesthetics Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:19:06 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20021207071425.GA713@allusion.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal X-archive-position: 3268 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jordan: > On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 01:56:10AM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, And Rosta wrote: > > > My own preference is to omit as much as possible, including all > > > fullstops and most apostrophes > > > > Eliding apostrophies is just plain rude. It forces the reader, likely to > > already have his hands full, to identify the impossible dipthongs; it > > requires an intimacy with Lojban > > Presumably And was indending to replace them with another letter? No, just omit them except where they contrast lexically with zero. > Anyway, imho eliding anything is just plain rude. None of use are > compentent enough speakers to remember to pause for things like a > cmene after mi'e and coi without it explicitly written As a reader I have two potentially-conflicting preferences. On the one hand, the onus is on the writer to scrupulously make my reading experience as easy as possible. On the other hand, I also enjoy a writer's individuality, untrammelled by excessive conformist imperatives. These balance out in an overall preference for the writer to not ignore the reader out of mere laziness and carelessness (which I think is rude), but to follow their own whims and judgement. Consequently I often enjoy to read writing condemned by others as excessive, self-indulgent and gratuitously eccentric. So put it this way, if I was publishing a Lojban newspaper, I'd take pains to cater to the needs of my readers, so would include a full quota of apostrophes and fullstops. But if I wrote a text for the sake of it, and then published it, I'd publish it in the orthography I thought best by my own lights. > Of rudeness though, nothing rivals using all capital letters (which > I've seen And do) Do you mean because all caps is shouting, or because of the idea that there is some fundamental incongruity between Lojban and all caps? If the former, then yes, but not all all caps is shouting -- e.g. headings are often all caps. And smallcaps aren't shouty. If the latter, then the idea is silly, and the putative rudeness reduces to the insufferable idea that mere nonconformity is rude. BTW, I don't remember having used allcaps. Well, once, when we were discussing El Pueblo Unido, but that's a chant -- you're *supposed* to shout it loudly. --And.