From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Dec 07 18:25:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 02:25:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 86234 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 02:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 02:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 02:25:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18Kr80-0003KO-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:25:08 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Kr7y-0003K5-00; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:25:06 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Kr7t-0003JH-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:25:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E3A27194 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:24:30 +0200 (EET) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp12.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.14]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F68C2714E for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:24:28 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3DF2A11A.4010807@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:32:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: nelci References: <3DFF06C3@webmail.uic.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 3272 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Turner From: Robin Turner Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out sbelknap wrote: > I just had an interesting conversation with my son, who is five. We were > talking about . Quite often, when I ask him if he likes X, he says no, > even though he has never tasted X. I then complain that he has never tasted X, > so how can he say he doesn't like it? As we discussed , I finally saw > the logic of his point-of-view, which as any Loglander or lojbanistani knows > has to do with the fussiness of negation. My son only likes things he has > tasted and "doesn't like" anything he hasn't tasted. I either like or don't > like things I've tasted, and don't know about things I haven't tasted. > > When we discussed what means, we both realized that we had been > miscommunicating in English. He is using a different negation scheme than I > am. I tried to explain lojban negation to him, but I soon realized that I do > not have a firm grasp on this myself, so I'm going to have to reread what John > had to say about negation. As I recall, the grammar is quite lucid on this > topic. zo'o "lucid" is a strong word to use about anything to do with negation. But in this case it's pretty straightforward. Your son, as a good lobypre, is saying {mi na nelci da} (It is not the case that I like X) and you are hearing {mi na'e nelci da} (I have a relationship other than liking with X). > My two year old daughter says "no" a lot. Now, I wonder what exactly she > means! That's more of an attitudinal! My guess is something like {vi'onai}. robin.tr -- "Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it." - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin