From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Sun Dec 08 14:06:19 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 22:06:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 72875 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 22:06:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 22:06:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 22:06:18 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18L9Z4-000690-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:06:18 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18L9Yw-00068P-00; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:06:10 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from lmsmtp04.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.114]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18L9Yo-00067J-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:06:02 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-61-144.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.61.144]) by lmsmtp04.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2B14865F for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:05:28 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: [h] (was: RE: Re: Aesthetics Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:07:40 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <0H6S007GK8YTZE@mxout3.netvision.net.il> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal X-archive-position: 3303 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Adam: > de'i li 2002-12-07 ti'u li 22:47:00 la'o zoi. Craig .zoi cusku di'e > >If it meant "don't use it" it wouldn't have said you could. If your listener > >finds [T] hard, don't use [T]. But if your listener finds [h] hard, don't > >use [h]. Or if your listener is like most listeners and can understand > >either, use whichever. But don't use an orthography that assumes one > > I suspect that most listeners will be able to understand either/all, but > would find anything other than [h] needlessly distracting, and in general > you have to concentrate quite a bit to understand spoken lojban anyway, so > there's no sense in adding a distraction In a sense, it is desirable to use [T] for precisely this reason: if [T] is allowed by the baseline/design but proscribed by convention, then we we end up with convention that contravenes the baseline by prescribing a range of usage narrower than what the baseline permits. We can generalize this futher to such things as use of the buffer vowel, use of non-'SVO' bridi, and so forth. That is, nonnormative usage is to be encouraged, so that in these early days of usage we don't set in stone conventions narrower than the baseline. --And.