From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Dec 08 14:40:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 22:40:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 87351 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 22:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 22:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 22:40:05 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18LA5l-0006mh-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:40:05 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18LA5i-0006mO-00; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:40:02 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18LA5d-0006m7-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:39:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 14:39:57 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [h] (was: RE: Re: Aesthetics Message-ID: <20021208223957.GF14879@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <0H6S007OC43PK8@mxout1.netvision.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0H6S007OC43PK8@mxout1.netvision.net.il> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 3310 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 04:28:07AM +0200, Adam Raizen wrote: > de'i li 2002-12-08 ti'u li 00:06:00 la'o zoi. And Rosta .zoi cusku di'e > > >> Because there is a greater phonic contrast between [T] and [f] or > >> [s] than between [h] and [x] > > > >Furthermore, [ihi] is so difficult to articulate that I think we can > >safely assume that nobody actually does say [ihi]. > > I, for one, certainly do say [ihi], and [coho] and everything else > like that clearly, and it is quite distinct from an [x]. I'm very curious as to what the heck Rosta is talking about here. [ihi], assuming I understand the IPA, as *trivial* for me to say, and I dare say that holds true for the vast majority of north american english speakers. > >In other words, the problem is not only that [h] and [x] are rather > >similar in isolation, Umm, what? We *are* talking about lojban ' and x, right? > Arabic contains both, in addition to some other very similar > consonants between them, and I am almost certain that it contrasts > them. I'm pretty sure that German also contains both, though I don't > know whether it contrasts them. Carefully enunciated Hebrew also > contains both and contrasts them, And Hindi contains just about every consonant imaginable. 8) -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. .i le pamoi velru'e zo'u jmaji le plibu taxfu .i le remoi velru'e zo'u mo .i le cimoi velru'e zo'u ba'e prali .uisai http://www.lojban.org/ *** to sa'a cu'u lei pibyta'u cridrnoma toi