From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Mon Dec 09 07:03:34 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 94086 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.112) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-66-8.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.66.8]) by lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BA15B6FE for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:03:31 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:03:20 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20021208182642.032c99a0@pop.east.cox.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Lojbab: > At 03:14 PM 12/8/02 -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >If you can convince me that garti/karti is worse that kalci/kelci, I'l > >be very impressed > > It IS worse. Indeed, one of the problems with text-to-(computer)-speech > with Lojban is the g/k distinction. Nora also comments that whispering was > one of the considerations; I suspect also that we were trying to be > considerate of other languages that do not make a voiced/unvoiced > distinction (I believe Chinese is one) English is another, of course. I formerly rendered /g/:/k/ English- style as [k]:[kh], but then I had a terrible time understanding Nick who, following the official line, said [g]:[k]; I heard all his /p, t, k/ as /b, d, g/. So now I try to say [g]:[kh] -- to my ears, the /b, d, g/ come out sounding very French. Note that, as with English, this means that the contrast remains audible when whispering. (Interestingly, my son said to me the other day "Are you writing to [xod]?" with a fully voiced unEnglish-sounding (and hence French-sounding) [d], so he must have noticed that the final consonant in _xod_ is not pronounced in the English way.) --And.