From jcowan@reutershealth.com Tue Dec 10 07:07:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 15:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 89158 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 15:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 15:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 15:07:59 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18LlzL-0005gm-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:07:59 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18LlzF-0005g0-00; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:07:53 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:07:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [65.246.141.151] (helo=mail2.reutershealth.com) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Llz2-0005co-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:07:40 -0800 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29715; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:19:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200212101519.KAA29715@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:06:56 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: [h] (was: RE: Re: Aesthetics To: xod@thestonecutters.net Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:06:56 -0500 (EST) Cc: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <20021208182135.M95494-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> from "Invent Yourself" at Dec 08, 2002 06:22:54 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 3398 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: John Cowan Reply-To: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8122456 X-Yahoo-Profile: john_w_cowan Invent Yourself scripsit: > Indeed. I can go "ihihi" without moving anything at all! For the "i" I > voice, and for the "h" I devoice and increase the aspiration. In that case you are doing what I am doing: using [C], IPA c-cedilla, as the realization of /h/. Perfectly legitimate thing to do, but not the same as IPA [h], which is realized in the back of the throat. Your /h/ in u'u is probably a lot closer to [h]. This is why I like to explain ' in terms of voicelessness of the surrounding vowels rather than in terms of [h], and why "h" isn't a particularly good representation of it. -- If you have ever wondered if you are in hell, John Cowan it has been said, then you are on a well-traveled http://www.ccil.org/~cowan road of spiritual inquiry. If you are absolutely http://www.reutershealth.com sure you are in hell, however, then you must be jcowan@reutershealth.com on the Cross Bronx Expressway. --Alan Feur, NYTimes, 2002-09-20