From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Dec 11 11:51:38 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 19:51:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 63548 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 19:51:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 19:51:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 19:51:37 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18MCtN-00027K-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:51:37 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18MCt9-000271-00; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:51:23 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18MCt3-00026m-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:51:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:51:17 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [h] (was: RE: Re: Aesthetics Message-ID: <20021211195117.GG11342@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 3459 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 11:56:29PM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > Tsali: > > On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, John Cowan wrote: > > > > > Invent Yourself scripsit: > > > > > > > Indeed. I can go "ihihi" without moving anything at all! For the > > > > "i" I voice, and for the "h" I devoice and increase the > > > > aspiration > > > > > > In that case you are doing what I am doing: using [C], IPA > > > c-cedilla, as the realization of /h/. Perfectly legitimate thing > > > to do, but not the same as IPA [h], which is realized in the back > > > of the throat Your /h/ in u'u is probably a lot closer to [h] > > > > I don't understand why you're saying that the IPA [h] is realized in > > the back of the throat. I don't have my _Handbook of the IPA_ at > > hand, but I believe that the conventional three-feature description > > of it is "voiceless glottal fricative". Note that the glottis is in > > the larynx, so this specification does not say anything about how > > the tongue is configured. Thus, there should be little or no > > co-articulatory effects > > The tongue can be configured in any way, so long as it does not create > an aperture narrower than that at the glottis and thereby shift the > locus of airstream turbulence from the glottis to the buccal > constriction. If that happens the sound is no longer a *glottal* > fricative. Oh!! OK, it *is* hard to say .i'i that way. I'll just keep saying [iCi] then. 8) -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. .i le pamoi velru'e zo'u jmaji le plibu taxfu .i le remoi velru'e zo'u mo .i le cimoi velru'e zo'u ba'e prali .uisai http://www.lojban.org/ *** to sa'a cu'u lei pibyta'u cridrnoma toi