From ragnarok@pobox.com Wed Dec 11 16:04:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 00:03:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 64592 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 23:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 23:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 23:50:18 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.38] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF384F3E00AA; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:50:16 -0500 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Re: tags Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:50:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20021211233249.GA57923@allusion.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: raganok@intrex.net [209.42.200.38] X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> >"lobykai" is toljbo. >> >> In what way? It is formed from 'lojbo ckaji' (Lojban quality), so the >> expected meaning is "having the properties associated with being Lojbanic" >> or similar. Since usage is supposed to determine the exact meaning of lujvo, >> whatever usage decides "lobykai" means is the correct meaning, but it should >> have some connection with the parent tanru. Usage has decided that "lobykai" >> refers to possessing the essence of lojbanic style and simplicity - so it >> does. What could be more lojbanic than a lujvo acquiring a meaning exactly >> as the Woldy says they should, through usage? >> >I'll discuss this on the list if you want, but I don't feel like >arguing it privately. It (that "lobykai" is braindead because >"lojbo" already means it) is mentioned on the wiki anyway. >(feel free to reply this to the list if you want to discuss it >there). I'm sorry, I thought I had sent it to the list. My bad. Anyway, "lojbo" has a fixed, baselined meaning: 'x1 reflects Lojbanic culture/language in manner x2' or some such. "lobykai" is a lujvo, so its meaning is what the community makes it. The community has made it a subset of lojbo, but the use of lobykai is rather more specific; it reflects a sense of elegance about the way something is expressed, often by cutting out unnecessary locutions from the literal translation of an English text. If lobykai were the same as lojbo, then 'kai' would be meaningless.