From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Thu Dec 12 13:51:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 3588 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.112) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-57-132.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.57.132]) by lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6DE5B686 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:51:56 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:51:54 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Nick: > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:03:20 -0000 > From: "And Rosta" > Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff > > > English is another, of course. I formerly rendered /g/:/k/ English- > > style as [k]:[kh], but then I had a terrible time understanding Nick > > who, following the official line, said [g]:[k]; I heard all his > > /p, t, k/ as /b, d, g/ > > And of course, you know why I did so, right? Not official line; but > Modern Greek, which has no aspiration My understanding was that your being a native speaker Greek *enabled* you to do it, but that you did it because it is the official line. You don't have problems with aspirating stops when speaking English. > Ivan Derzhanski pronounces all umpteen languages he speaks like > Bulgarian :-) ; I pronounce da'are like Greek, and my German is painful > indeed. The da'apamoi is Klingon, which I actually pronounce New > Zealandish --- I overcentralise the lax vowels. (No lax vowels in > Greek, y'see...) Is that because Greek is your primary language, or because it is your prototype for a foreign language? I tend to pronounce everything but English as if it were Italian, because it is my model for speaking a foreign language. > > So now I try to say [g]:[kh] -- to my ears, > > the /b, d, g/ come out sounding very French > > I'm behind on this: how do you mean? Are you talking about voicing the > d's in all contexts, or something else? Length? If I said 'xod' in my English accent, the /d/ would either be completely voiceless or else only voiced at the beginning. It sounds French when I say it because the voicing lasts all the way through; almost as if, to English ears, I was saying 'xodder/xodda'. --And.