Subject: [lojban] Re: the ethics of the HTML content meta tag

From: Theodore Reed <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:05 -0800

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:18:15 -0600
Steven Belknap <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Judging by the posts to this list, some members of lojbanistan seem 
> more than indifferent, they seem quite hostile towards logli and not 
> just towards me. Such hostility seems as unwise as it is unkind.

I have noticed no hostility to logli in this community. There is a
general "if you don't speak lojban, don't try telling us that we're
doing something wrong" attitude, which applies to logli and non-logli
alike, which may be related to what you're talking about.

To me, and I'm sure others, lojban is *not* loglan. It is a whole
'nother language. Sure, lojban grew out of loglan, and some logli and
some lojbo share goals in the use of their respective languages, but
they are not the same. Calling lojban "loglan" is about as insulting to
some as saying that English is just German with some funky French words
thrown in. Yes, lojban is a loglanic language, but just as English is a
Germanic language. Lojban and English both share similarity with their
parent languages, but are entire new languages in their own right.
Knowing German doesn't enable you to speak English, just as knowing
Loglan doesn't enable you to speak Lojban. They are similar, but
different. (Of course, knowing German/Loglan can enable one to learn
English/Lojban easier than one who doesn't know.)

> Healing the rift between TLI Loglan and LLG Loglan costs
> LLG Loglan almost nothing, but might have a salubrious effect on
> community building. 

How does taking the name of their language help matters at all? Would we
Americans have a better relationship with the Germans if we referred to
English as "British German"?

> Our current web presence is inconsistent with this reality. I
> certainly don't favor doing anything which misrepresents the situation
> or offends logli.

>>From google:

Searched English pages for loglan. Results 1 - 10 of about 6,090.

Searched English pages for lojban. Results 1 - 10 of about 122,000. 

That's a pretty big difference. Looks like reality to me.

-- 
Theodore Reed (rizen/bancus) -==- http://www.surreality.us/
~OpenPGP Signed/Encrypted Mail Preferred; Finger me for my public key!~

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do
not." -- Thomas Jefferson