From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Dec 12 14:22:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 22:22:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 62930 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 22:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 22:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 22:22:58 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18MbjN-0004hB-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:57 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Mbih-0004fs-00; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:15 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ispwest.com ([216.52.245.18] helo=ispwestemail1.aceweb.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Mbic-0004fj-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:10 -0800 Received: from surreality.us (unverified [4.47.240.153]) by ispwestemail1.aceweb.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.4.232) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:21:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:05 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: the ethics of the HTML content meta tag Message-Id: <20021212142205.1d194dbc.rizen@surreality.us> In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021212051327.03408490@pop.east.cox.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="=.LWITbtUc)?mtsH" X-archive-position: 3513 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rizen@surreality.us Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Theodore Reed From: Theodore Reed Reply-To: rizen@surreality.us X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --=.LWITbtUc)?mtsH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:18:15 -0600 Steven Belknap wrote: > Judging by the posts to this list, some members of lojbanistan seem > more than indifferent, they seem quite hostile towards logli and not > just towards me. Such hostility seems as unwise as it is unkind. I have noticed no hostility to logli in this community. There is a general "if you don't speak lojban, don't try telling us that we're doing something wrong" attitude, which applies to logli and non-logli alike, which may be related to what you're talking about. To me, and I'm sure others, lojban is *not* loglan. It is a whole 'nother language. Sure, lojban grew out of loglan, and some logli and some lojbo share goals in the use of their respective languages, but they are not the same. Calling lojban "loglan" is about as insulting to some as saying that English is just German with some funky French words thrown in. Yes, lojban is a loglanic language, but just as English is a Germanic language. Lojban and English both share similarity with their parent languages, but are entire new languages in their own right. Knowing German doesn't enable you to speak English, just as knowing Loglan doesn't enable you to speak Lojban. They are similar, but different. (Of course, knowing German/Loglan can enable one to learn English/Lojban easier than one who doesn't know.) > Healing the rift between TLI Loglan and LLG Loglan costs > LLG Loglan almost nothing, but might have a salubrious effect on > community building. How does taking the name of their language help matters at all? Would we Americans have a better relationship with the Germans if we referred to English as "British German"? > Our current web presence is inconsistent with this reality. I > certainly don't favor doing anything which misrepresents the situation > or offends logli. >>From google: Searched English pages for loglan. Results 1 - 10 of about 6,090. Searched English pages for lojban. Results 1 - 10 of about 122,000. That's a pretty big difference. Looks like reality to me. -- Theodore Reed (rizen/bancus) -==- http://www.surreality.us/ ~OpenPGP Signed/Encrypted Mail Preferred; Finger me for my public key!~ "Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not." -- Thomas Jefferson --=.LWITbtUc)?mtsH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9+QwNw24JwM4aDNwRAjXGAKDUdT7hkjuN0a/GsKxRR7bBdJgQpACeJ14U OT/lGJ/nq5rg1gSjRVM8syQ= =Ruwn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.LWITbtUc)?mtsH--