From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Dec 27 14:22:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Dec 2002 22:22:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 32937 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2002 22:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2002 22:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2002 22:22:24 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18S2s3-00049t-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:22:23 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18S2rx-00049a-00; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:22:17 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18S2rq-00049J-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:22:10 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3532C3EB for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 00:21:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp14.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.16]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39242C3C4 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 00:21:27 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E0CC662.9040402@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 23:30:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [geofiction] Re: Felichan Kristnaskon! References: <20021227131735.4813a2d3.rizen@surreality.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 3643 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Turner From: Robin Turner Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Theodore Reed wrote: > On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:39:47 -0000 > "Viktoro " wrote: > > >>--- In geofiction@yahoogroups.com, "hotmyol " >> wrote: >> >> >>>Lojban (lojban.org): gleki kraist donri (Lit. Happy Christ Day) >> >>Thanks for the Lojban translation. I was wondering what it was! >>But doesn't that parse to ((Happy Christ) Day), not (Happy (Christ >>Day))? A happy-Christ type of day - I kind of like it. After all, we have happy Buddhas, so why not happy Christs? Therefore, shouldn't it be soumething like: >> >>gleki donri pe kraist (Happy Day of Christ) > > > Really, I think these are all pretty bad literal translations. (Not to > mention that you can't use pe like that.) True, you can't. Apart from the parsing problems, the reason for not using {pe} and its relatives in selbri is that the equivalent things can be handled by changing the structure of the tanru. To avoid the Happy-Christ problem, you can just insert {bo} to break up the tanru. What is meant by "Merry > Christmas"? "Be merry about the day of christ's birth." > > ko gleki le djedi pe lenu jbena fa la kraist. > > (Be merry/happy about the day associated with the birth of Christ.) > I'm not sure this is the sense. I'd say it was more like "I hope that Christmas will be a joyful occasion for you." Something like .a'o do gleki de'i le na'arke'udei pe la kraist. > Or maybe something shorter... > > ko gleki le xriso jbena djedi > > (Be happy/merry regarding the christian birth day.) But {xriso jbena} would mean a Christian type of birth, not the birth of Christ. > or even make a lujvo: > > ko gleki le xi'ojbedei > > (I'm not sure if the xi'ojb is valid, however.) Looks OK to me, apart from my semantic objections just stated. > > Also, "donri" means only the daytime portion of a full day, which is > "djedi". > Funny - the normal mistake is the other way round - i.e. to use {djedi} when {donri} is needed. anyway ... .a'o rodo gleki de'i le nanca cfari mu'o mi'e solri -- "Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it." - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin