From Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de Thu Jan 02 09:52:01 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 17:51:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 80541 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18U2qa-0004sw-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 02:45:08 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18U2qT-0004sd-00; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 02:45:01 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 02 Jan 2003 02:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw6.gedas.de ([139.1.44.12] helo=spree.gedas.de) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18U2qO-0004sR-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 02:44:56 -0800 Received: from spree.gedas.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spree.gedas.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04052 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:44:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from blnsem05.de.gedas.vwg (blnsem05.gedas.de [139.1.84.49]) by spree.gedas.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04047 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:44:21 +0100 (MET) Received: by blnsem05.de.gedas.vwg with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:44:21 +0100 Message-ID: To: "'lojban-list@lojban.org'" Subject: [lojban] Re: I am the man who wrote you a letter Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:44:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-archive-position: 3683 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "Newton, Philip" Reply-To: Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23036112 X-Yahoo-Profile: elder_newton First off, thanks to all who responded. Jordan DeLong wrote: > A poi phrase type thing at the bridi level would just be done with > gi'e. mi nanmu gi'e te xatra do. Are those the same? I would think gi'e phrases are more like noi than like poi -- I'm a man, and I wrote you a letter. But I'm not a [man who wrote you a letter], or at least, I don't think the above bridi expresses that concept. Is gi'e more like noi or more like poi? John Cowan wrote: > In this particular case I would say "mi'e [le] nanmu poi te xatra do", > but that doesn't generalize beyond "mi'e" and "doi". OK, interesting. Actually, in the case I was looking at, this makes sense. (Though as you say, this doesn't generalise, so it's useful to learn the more general approach as well.) Nora LeChevalier wrote: > However, I agree with Robin Turner that "nanmu" would only be > used if that were important; otherwise, I'd leave it out altogether, > getting: > mi du le te xatra be do Neat. Thanks. (Though in the case I had, the sex was important.) Is it possible to put a {pu} in there, like {mi du le pu te xatra be do}? What about indefinite references, though? That is, "I am *a* man who wrote a letter to you? If the sex is not important, only the letter-writing, then {mi pu te xatra be do} works, but if you want to include "man" then you have to bring the {poi}-ness in somehow. And then {mi du lo nanmu poi pu te xatra be do} sounds wrong again -- and {mi nanmu gi'e pu te xatra be do} sounds more like a {noi} connection than a {poi} one to me. Maybe {mi du pa le ro nanmu poi pu te xatra be do} or something? Not sure whether {du} is correct in such a case, since I'm not thinking of one letter-writing man in particular, only stating that I am one such. mu'omi'e filip. [email copies appreciated, since I read the digest] {ko fukpi mrilu fi mi ki'u le du'u mi te mrilu le notseljmaji} -- filip.niutyn. All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.