From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Jan 07 11:04:04 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Jan 2003 19:04:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 13005 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2003 19:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2003 19:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2003 19:04:03 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18Vz18-0003gU-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:04:02 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Vz0c-0003g8-00; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:03:30 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18Vz0W-0003fx-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:03:24 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:03:24 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: open and save Message-ID: <20030107190324.GD3954@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20030107180540.GX3954@digitalkingdom.org> <10788F54-2272-11D7-97F6-000393629ED4@uic.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <10788F54-2272-11D7-97F6-000393629ED4@uic.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 3735 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 12:58:52PM -0600, Steven Belknap wrote: > On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 12:05 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > >On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 11:57:21AM -0600, Steven Belknap wrote: > >>The use of the lojban word for a computer file is not > >>malglico. The analogy of computer file to a paper file is a > >>language-independent extension of the concept of file to cyberspace. > > > >That is *such* incredible crap. There are hundreds of languages that > >don't even have the *concept* of a file folder. > > Perhaps Maori does not have the concept of a file folder. Anybody who > lives in a modern industrial state must deal with files. That doesn't make it language-independent. > >And dacru isn't a file in that sense anyways, it's a drawer. A > >*physical* drawer. A *sliding* *compartment*, for crying out loud. > > On my Mac there is a *sliding drawer* which I click on to see my files > of email messages. That's nice. And that's a *folder* in computer parlance, not a *file*. If you want to use dacru for *folder*, I'd be less annoyed. > Not all physical file holders are sliding compartments. My reading of > the definition is that the brackets around "sliding compartment" > denote a typical instance of a , but do not necessarily > restrict the meaning of the word to physical drawers with sliding > compartments. > > dacru dac drawer x1 is a drawer/file in structure x2, a [sliding > compartment] container for contents x3 > > There are clear cyber analogues to each of the broda in Umm, the x2 place? > >> is not an apt lojban word for file. A file *contains* > >>records. > > > >Umm, BS. Unless you're defining record as an ASCII character or > >something, I assure you, the vast majority of my files do not, in > >fact, contain records. They are records (i.e. permanent-ish storage) > >of data. > > "record" and "file" are useful English terms precisely because they > distinguish two levels of abstraction about the organization of > information. Do you have any Microsoft Word files on your computer? I may have one somewhere, yes. > If so, some of your files contain records. Umm, how so? Perhaps you are using the term 'file' when you mean 'folder', as I said above. What do you mean when you say 'record'? > Your approach would conflate these two levels of abstraction, to the > detriment of clear expression of an idea. I don't understand the way you are using these abstractions at all, and I have a CS degree. Sort of. -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. .i le pamoi velru'e zo'u jmaji le plibu taxfu .i le remoi velru'e zo'u mo .i le cimoi velru'e zo'u ba'e prali .uisai http://www.lojban.org/ *** to sa'a cu'u lei pibyta'u cridrnoma toi