From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Tue Jan 07 17:12:31 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 01:12:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 89695 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 01:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 01:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 01:12:31 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18W4lj-0000wH-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:12:31 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18W4lA-0000vp-00; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:11:56 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.111]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18W4l4-0000vd-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:11:50 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer (unknown [213.121.71.230]) by lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1216D1E792 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 02:11:47 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: open and save Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 01:11:41 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <20030107180540.GX3954@digitalkingdom.org> X-archive-position: 3741 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Robin: > On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 11:57:21AM -0600, Steven Belknap wrote: > > The use of the lojban word for a computer file is not > > malglico. The analogy of computer file to a paper file is a > > language-independent extension of the concept of file to cyberspace > > That is *such* incredible crap. There are hundreds of languages that > don't even have the *concept* of a file folder I think Steven is right in a sense, for while the metaphor may be specific to glico (or western) culture, it is not language-specific or language-dependent. Lojbanists differ on their views about whether metaphors expressed in Lojban should be independent of glico culture; it's a matter of personal choice. Personally I like the defamiliarization effect of expressing glico metaphors in Lojban, but I agree that this is not appropriate for official lujvo. > And dacru isn't a file in that sense anyways, it's a drawer. A > *physical* drawer. A *sliding* *compartment*, for crying out loud > > > is not an apt lojban word for file. A file *contains* records > > Umm, BS. Unless you're defining record as an ASCII character or > something, I assure you, the vast majority of my files do not, in fact, > contain records. They are records (i.e. permanent-ish storage) of data I agree in one sense, but from the user's point of view a file does feel like a container. --And.