From sbelknap@UIC.EDU Tue Jan 07 17:30:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 01:30:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 90764 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 01:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 01:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 01:30:52 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18W53T-00013F-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:30:51 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18W52u-00012p-00; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:30:16 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from larch.cc.uic.edu ([128.248.155.164]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18W52o-00012f-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:30:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 20873 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 01:30:07 -0000 Received: from webmail.cc.uic.edu (HELO webmail.uic.edu) (128.248.121.50) by larch.cc.uic.edu with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 01:30:07 -0000 X-WebMail-UserID: sbelknap@uic.edu Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:27:51 -0600 To: , a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-EXP32-SerialNo: 50000146 Subject: [lojban] Re: open and save Message-ID: <3E4E9FB4@webmail.uic.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.62 X-archive-position: 3742 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: sbelknap@uic.edu Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: sbelknap Reply-To: sbelknap@uic.edu X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810567 >===== Original Message From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk ===== >Robin: >> On Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 11:57:21AM -0600, Steven Belknap wrote: >> > The use of the lojban word for a computer file is not >> > malglico. The analogy of computer file to a paper file is a >> > language-independent extension of the concept of file to cyberspace >> >> That is *such* incredible crap. There are hundreds of languages that >> don't even have the *concept* of a file folder > >I think Steven is right in a sense, for while the metaphor may be >specific to glico (or western) culture, it is not language-specific >or language-dependent. > >Lojbanists differ on their views about whether metaphors expressed >in Lojban should be independent of glico culture; it's a matter >of personal choice. Personally I like the defamiliarization effect >of expressing glico metaphors in Lojban, but I agree that this is >not appropriate for official lujvo. > >> And dacru isn't a file in that sense anyways, it's a drawer. A >> *physical* drawer. A *sliding* *compartment*, for crying out loud >> >> > is not an apt lojban word for file. A file *contains* records >> >> Umm, BS. Unless you're defining record as an ASCII character or >> something, I assure you, the vast majority of my files do not, in fact, >> contain records. They are records (i.e. permanent-ish storage) of data > >I agree in one sense, but from the user's point of view a file does >feel like a container. Also from a programmer's point of view. The markers EOI (end of information), EOF (end of record), and EOR (end of record) are often designated by ASCII characters, even in recent file structures.