From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jan 08 01:30:58 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 09:30:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 85386 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 09:30:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 09:30:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 09:30:57 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18WCY5-0003l2-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 01:30:57 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18WCXT-0003kj-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 01:30:19 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 08 Jan 2003 01:30:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18WCXM-0003kK-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 01:30:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018E22A43D for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:29:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp140.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.140]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FAD2A092 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:29:35 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E1BE39A.7060003@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:38:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: open and save References: <20030107221859.V70740-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 3745 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Turner From: Robin Turner Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Invent Yourself wrote: [snip] > > We say that the water is contained by a jar because we can easily > imagine water that's not contained by a jar. Can we have data "outside" of > a file? Does the mere recording of data instantiate a file if we ever hope > to find it again? (/dev/null is a distraction that will be ignored.) Eve if we are using "file" in the broad, unixy sense (to include executables, symbolic links etc) I still think we can have data which is not a file. What about output? Are the commands sent by the ppp daemon to my modem really files? mu'o mi'e solri -- "Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it." - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin