From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Jan 08 20:24:10 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Jan 2003 04:24:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 54116 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 04:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2003 04:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao04.cox.net) (68.1.17.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2003 04:24:09 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030109042410.FIFK22825.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:24:10 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030108231606.0347ea00@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: lojbab@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:24:53 -0500 To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: open and save In-Reply-To: <000f01bf5c1e$860aeb20$5a8707d5@oneof> References: <1042034196.307.2546.m12@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Bob LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab >I would vote for "vasru" since I perceive files as a kind of container, too. I kind of agree, but a file is more simply a girzu of vreji or datni. Nora comments that while we focus so closely on "file", we should also focus on "open" and "closed". First of all, these refer to the state: open=ajar, closed=shut, so you need to make the agentive result to use kalri or ganlo at all. But in addition there is no obvious passage or portal which is "open" or "closed" when a file is open or closed - the metaphor works ONLY if you stick consistently to the drawer metaphor, and then it doesn't work well (a drawer is probably "out" rather than "open" in Lojban, a box lid or cupboard door might be "open"). Sorry to make everyone's life more complicated %^) lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org