From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Jan 09 03:24:22 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Jan 2003 11:24:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 85928 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 11:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2003 11:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2003 11:24:22 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18WanO-0002As-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 03:24:22 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18WanG-0002AY-00; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 03:24:14 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 09 Jan 2003 03:24:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18WanA-0002AN-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 03:24:08 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C262B694 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:23:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (neo.fen.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.97.69]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C10B2A079 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:23:33 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E1D5BBE.5000205@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:23:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: open and save References: <1042034196.307.2546.m12@yahoogroups.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030108231606.0347ea00@pop.east.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 3763 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: robin From: robin Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Bob LeChevalier wrote: >>I would vote for "vasru" since I perceive files as a kind of container, too. > > > I kind of agree, but a file is more simply a girzu of vreji or datni. > > Nora comments that while we focus so closely on "file", we should also > focus on "open" and "closed". First of all, these refer to the state: > open=ajar, closed=shut, so you need to make the agentive result to use > kalri or ganlo at all. But in addition there is no obvious passage or > portal which is "open" or "closed" when a file is open or closed - the > metaphor works ONLY if you stick consistently to the drawer metaphor, and > then it doesn't work well (a drawer is probably "out" rather than "open" in > Lojban, a box lid or cupboard door might be "open"). > > Sorry to make everyone's life more complicated %^) Do we really want to continue the metaphor? Isn't there something else which would represent the state of an open file (i.e. that it is currently being read from / written to)? "Active" springs to mind, except that unless it's an executable, it's really more passive than active. mu'o mi'e solri -- "A Perl script is "correct" if it gets the job done before your boss fires you." - Larry Wall Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin