Subject: Re: [lojban] loi preti be fi lo nincli zo'u tu'e

From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:16:39 -0500 (EST)

Martin Bays scripsit:

Excellent questions every one!

> Is a jek-connected tanru like {ricfu je ninmu} still a single selbri? And
> in that case, what is its place structure, given that {ricfu} and {ninmu}
> have quite different place structures?

The place structure is basically that of ninmu, but any sumti appearing
before the selbri are put into the appropriate places of both ricfu and
ninmu.

> What's the difference between {LE broda pe BAI LE brode} and {LE broda be
> BAI LE brode}?

Little or nothing.

> The "imaginary journey" idea doesn't seem to make much sense for some
> FAhA cmavo, such as fa'a, to'o, zo'i. What does {fa'a broda} mean? Or
> indeed {fa'a mo'i broda}? How about {broda fa'a ko'a}? {broda fa'a mo'i
> ko'a} has an obvious interpretation, though again it doesn't fit in with
> an imaginary journey starting from ko'a.

The point of "fa'a" is to provide a cmavo for "at (or toward, with mo'i)
some relevant direction", with the specification of the direction left
up to context. "to'o" is the direction opposite "fa'a", whatever it is.

> Is there any general rule for where events happens for the purposes of
> spatial tenses? For example, if I say {mi ca'u catlu}, as I understand it
> that means the {mi catlu} is true at a point in front of me. But does that
> mean I'm looking at something in front of me, or that (paradoxically) I'm
> in front of myself as I look, or what?

"Answer unclear, try back later." AFAIK nobody has defined where a
nuncatlu occurs.

> Does {ze'e ro roi ku ganai broda gi brode} mean "for each point of time,
> if broda then brode" or "if (broda over the whole of time) then (brode
> over the whole of time)?

This question is fit for the jboske list; I certainly don't know the answer.

> How to use functions with ranges beyond the numbers? E.g. if I have a
> function f:A->B with A and B sets {fy fancu abu noi selcmi ku'o by noi
> selcmi}, what's f(x)? According to jbofi'e, {ma'o fy boi xy} and {le ma'o
> fy boi xy} are both ungrammatical, and does {li ma'o fy boi xy} make
> sense?

"li" is correct. The gloss "the number" is really too narrow; it should be
"the mathematical value".

> Are there exact rules for how overriding components of a pro-bridi works?
> e.g. in {da zo'u remna .i naku go'i} is the second sentence equivalent to
> {naku da zo'u remna} or {da zo'u naku remna}?
> Do tenses add up or overwrite? How about attitudinals? seltcita sumti
> with the same tcita? What happens when you bring in connectives? And so
> on.

All open questions at present.

> What happens when more than one modal place is filled in a bridi? E.g. if
> {broda cau ko'a secau ko'e}, is it true that {ko'a caxlu ko'e} or just
> that {ge ko'a caxlu zo'e gi zo'e caxlu ko'e}? Similarly, is {broda cau
> ko'a cau ko'e} legit, and does it mean the same as {broda cau ko'a .e
> ko'e}?

To the second point, yes; that is how filling any place multiple times works.
(Technically, the implied connective is jo'u, but we have not really 
figured out under what circumstances jo'u differs from .e).

To the first point, I would certainly think so, but it is not written
down anywhere -- I don't know that anyone has ever considered the point
before.

-- 
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It's all semi-structured, no less. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
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