From phma@webjockey.net Fri Jan 24 14:46:44 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 24 Jan 2003 22:46:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 6802 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2003 22:46:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2003 22:46:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blackcat.ixazon.lan) (208.150.110.21) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2003 22:46:44 -0000 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 43D7EA50D; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:46:43 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: "Lojban List" Subject: An X is an X Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:46:42 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200301241746.42842.phma@webjockey.net> From: Pierre Abbat X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 I was reading recently about the kashrut le Pesach of carbonated drinks, and thought "It doesn't matter whether it's extracted from beer foam or produced by dropping vinegar on chalk; carbon dioxide is carbon dioxide." In Lojban, that is "lodu'u selvi'u loi birje fonmo gi'i terpruce fi lonu falgau loi sarvanju loi bakri na vajni .i loi bakrygapci cu bakrygapci." But in English, "an X is an X" (count noun) or "X is X" (mass noun) is an idiom; in Lojban it's a tautology. How should the idiom be rendered in Lojban? phma