From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Fri Jan 24 16:50:13 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 25 Jan 2003 00:50:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 19796 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2003 00:50:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2003 00:50:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lmsmtp04.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.114) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2003 00:50:05 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-70-72.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.70.72]) by lmsmtp04.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DAF47E88 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 01:50:04 +0100 (MET) To: "Lojban List" Subject: RE: [lojban] An X is an X Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 00:50:01 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200301241746.42842.phma@webjockey.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Pierre: > I was reading recently about the kashrut le Pesach of carbonated drinks, and > thought "It doesn't matter whether it's extracted from beer foam or produced > by dropping vinegar on chalk; carbon dioxide is carbon dioxide." In Lojban, > that is "lodu'u selvi'u loi birje fonmo gi'i terpruce fi lonu falgau loi > sarvanju loi bakri na vajni .i loi bakrygapci cu bakrygapci." But in English, > "an X is an X" (count noun) or "X is X" (mass noun) is an idiom; in Lojban > it's a tautology. How should the idiom be rendered in Lojban? I would see the interpretation of the English as based not on idiom but on gricean implicature, which consequently ought to be equally applicable to the Lojban. So personally I would translate the English into Lojban literally ("gu blahblah gi ro CO2 cu CO2"). --And.