From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Feb 02 00:40:56 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 2 Feb 2003 08:40:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 52100 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 08:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2003 08:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 08:40:56 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18fFgO-0002CP-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:40:56 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18fFfG-0002Bw-00; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:39:46 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu ([18.7.7.76]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18fFf8-0002Bf-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:39:38 -0800 Received: from grand-central-station.mit.edu (GRAND-CENTRAL-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.82]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA14065; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (MELBOURNE-CITY-STREET.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.86]) by grand-central-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA28211; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from torg.mit.edu (RANDOM-THREE-NINETY-SIX.MIT.EDU [18.243.6.141]) by melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA22369; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from rob by torg.mit.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18fFew-0006k2-00; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 03:39:26 -0500 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:39:26 -0500 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org, lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Greetings, and commands Message-ID: <20030202083926.GA25701@mit.edu> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org, lojban-list@lojban.org References: <67E894BA4AB90F4781580985A5FAF32E16986E@rachael.letnet.net> <20030201010726.GI9156@digitalkingdom.org> <3E3B4CF0.7090501@bilkent.edu.tr> <20030201081643.GC22249@mit.edu> <20030201191255.GK13520@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030201191255.GK13520@digitalkingdom.org> X-Is-It-Not-Nifty: www.sluggy.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-archive-position: 3979 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rspeer@MIT.EDU Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Rob Speer From: Rob Speer Reply-To: rspeer@MIT.EDU X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 11:12:55AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > When used as a *command*, a suggestion seems to me to be obviously more > polite by default than a statement of obligation. Not so in other > cases, of course. True; I suppose I went off on the wrong tangent of my rant. The thing here is that I don't believe that a sentence with {e'u} but not {ko} is any sort of command at all. That does mean that I consider {ei} to be somewhat special, and this is only because it fills a void in the language - turning a sentence into a command without using a pronoun to do it. I don't like {ei} commands very much, but we need them. Then again, there are alternatives. {do'e ko} seems like it could do the trick (making "ko" take effect without filling a sumti place) in general. To save a syllable, {fai ko} seems to do the same thing by somewhat cheating. If the listener can actually be expected to do something to fulfill the command, there's also {bai ko}. This is already out of the scope of lojban-beginners, though. I'm cross-posting to lojban-list, and replies should probably go there. -- mu'o mi'e rab.spir