From ragnarok@pobox.com Wed Feb 05 17:43:24 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 6 Feb 2003 01:43:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 92373 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2003 01:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:43:22 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18gb4U-0007En-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:43:22 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18gb4N-0007EU-00; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:43:15 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:43:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.intrex.net ([209.42.192.250]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18gb4G-0007ED-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:43:08 -0800 Received: from craig [209.42.200.67] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id AD9010110044; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:42:40 -0500 To: Subject: [lojban] Re: Language Names, please. Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:42:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200302052001.01080.phma@webjockey.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.67] X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-archive-position: 4019 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ragnarok@pobox.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "Craig" Reply-To: ragnarok@pobox.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> cy - Welsh - Cymraeg - kimro >kymraig. I don't think Welsh should have a gismu, and I'm not sure what to do >about the 'y' when making a brivla, but there should be a brivla so that we >can speak about a Welsh broda. Personally, I vote for a as it is the closest lojban vowel. Yes, the phoneme y has a realization identical to u (which varies between /i/ and /y/ by dialect), but in non-final syllables (and some monosyllables) it is a distinct sound. For mathematical reasons, two seperate two-way mergers are preferable to one three-way merger. They can be easily shown to maintain more minimal pairs. I therefore advocate 'kamro'.