From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Feb 25 19:02:29 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 26 Feb 2003 03:02:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 97006 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 03:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2003 03:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 03:02:29 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18nrq0-0005PA-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:02:28 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18nrpl-0005Og-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:02:13 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18nrpd-0005OW-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:02:05 -0800 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1Q38cZB018227 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:08:39 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1Q38cvP018226 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:08:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:08:38 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Nick will be with you shortly Message-ID: <20030226030837.GA18158@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TB36FDmn/VVEgNH/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 4151 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --TB36FDmn/VVEgNH/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 09:49:30PM -0500, Craig wrote: > >is too baroque to be acceptable (or that there is no problem with > >{loi} to be solved), but I'll just have to lump it. >=20 > I don't know what the problem with {loi} is, and when the BPFK appears an= d > we all get a veto I will veto any change to {loi} that doesn't demonstrat= e > that there is one. In fact, I plan to veto any change to the language tha= t > doesn't solve a problem which is either obvious or explained in the > proposal; the BPFK should not act lightly. > But, if the jposkepre have been able to put much effort into {loi}, then = I'm > sure there is a problem and that their proposal will explain it to us. There is no problem with loi. I've been on jboske and saw all the complaints: basically what it comes down to is "Lojban-masses aren't either 'collectives' or 'substances' and therefore are broken". This argument is broken; it is not a foregone conclusion that lojban must directly map onto english or natlang concepts. Lojbanmasses behave as something distinct from substances and collectives, covering some features of both, without causing any difficulties or problems. The only actual gadri problem I know of (or that has been adequately explained to me and that I've found agreeable---and it is a pretty serious one), is that it is basically impossible to use predicates like djica (in x2) correctly. --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --TB36FDmn/VVEgNH/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+XC+1DrrilS51AZ8RAqkoAKClKeelp6f7GDz3r+WTXbOEpLf75ACfTpdS +y/4cd8ciNInCDmvrsC/8e4= =rZ0X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TB36FDmn/VVEgNH/--