From jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Thu Feb 27 09:26:54 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 27 Feb 2003 17:26:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4714 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 17:26:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2003 17:26:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 17:26:53 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18oRo5-0000xN-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:53 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oRns-0000wx-00; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:40 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from fern.math.ucla.edu ([128.97.4.251]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oRnm-0000wo-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:34 -0800 Received: from simba.math.ucla.edu (simba.math.ucla.edu [128.97.4.125]) by fern.math.ucla.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1RHQWfM009345 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from simba.math.ucla.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by simba.math.ucla.edu (8.12.6/8.12.6/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h1RHQW5H012589 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:32 -0800 Received: from localhost (jimc@localhost) by simba.math.ucla.edu (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1RHQW8s012586 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: simba.math.ucla.edu: jimc owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:32 -0800 (PST) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Nick will be with you shortly In-Reply-To: <20030226235244.GA22288@allusion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4194 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Jim Carter Reply-To: jimc@math.ucla.edu X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810565 On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Jordan DeLong wrote: --- snip prior history --- > > > There is no problem with loi. > > > > Since more than one competent lojbanist disagrees with you, you are > > prima facia wrong, even if all your points are correct. > > Huh? This is a fallacy (argumentum ad populum). Statements have > a particular truth value regardless of what we believe about them. Also regardless of what _you_ believe about them. But the _*TRVTH*_ is hard to discover. In the usual case, people disagree what the truth is, and when the disagreement impairs function (in this case, use of loi), there is a problem -- in peoples' understanding of the rules, whether or not, if they were diligent enough in studying them, the rules were without fault (not very likely). A recurring theme these days seems to be "I know what's right and I'll nuke your immoral arse if you get in my way". Not accusing you (Jordan) of being quite that extreme, but in a standardization process, consensus is equally as important as technical correctness. Lack of consensus does impair function, and is a problem that needs to be solved. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key)