From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Feb 27 18:26:53 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 28 Feb 2003 02:26:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 49100 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 02:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2003 02:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 02:26:53 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18oaEe-0004yw-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:26:52 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oaEb-0004yd-00; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:26:49 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:26:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oaEV-0004yU-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:26:43 -0800 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1S2XEbE026249 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:33:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1S2XEUd026248 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:33:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:33:14 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Any (was: Nick will be with you shortly) Message-ID: <20030228023314.GA26219@allusion.net> References: <20030228021348.GA8703@allusion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 4209 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 09:23:55PM -0500, Craig wrote: > >> >> > But "mi djica lo mikce" is true under different circumstances tha= n > >> >> > "mi djica mikce". It's clearer if you translate to english= ; > >> >> > the first: There is a doctor (some doctors) that I need. The > >> >> > second: I need any doctor(s). > >> >> > >> >> Are you trying to say "n'importe quel"? I think the way to say this= is > >> "lo > >> >> mikce", where "" is some discursive in UI, though I'm not sure > which. > >> > >> >That was xod's argument. "lo da'icu'i mikce", etc. > >> > >> >However this still doesn't solve the problem. "lo mikce" has to > >> >be the same as "da poi mikce". "I need some doctor" or "There is > >> >a doctor that I need". It cannot do "I need any doctor". > >> > >> What you think 'lo mikce' means, re-expressed with das, is 'pada poi > mikce'. > >> 'da poi mikce' (=3D 'lo mikce') means ANY da that mikce. Similar to ho= w 'da > na > >> prane prenu' means 'nobody is perfect', not 'somebody is imperfect'. >=20 > >No, I think it means su'o da. Forgive me for forgetting to put (s) > >things on the glosses, I figured people would realize that. Anyway, > >"I need a doctor" or "I need any doctor" in English talks about > >*one* doctor. You can also say "I need two doctors" (or "any two > >doctors") with the Any meaning. "da poi mikce" means "There is a > >thing which is a mikce, and for which ...". >=20 > mi nitcu da. Let's start with that. Do you at least agree that there isn'= t a > specific thing which I mean that I need? > Okay, good. Now onto da poi mikce. That means that the da must be a docto= r, > but ads no further restrictions. > Now onto lo. mi nitcu lo mikce =3D mi nitcu da poi mikce. We already agre= ed on > that one. > Therefore, I am expressing Any with this usage. QED. No. What follows is that "there isn't a specific thing you need" with that usage. That doesn't make it Any. --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+XspqDrrilS51AZ8RAoMTAKCjzmJrlHfQgv0QyJiqnfCTg1VJEgCeOhWb CITObwEJL02CgT440YGJ40k= =EzUs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1--