From ragnarok@pobox.com Thu Feb 27 18:39:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 28 Feb 2003 02:39:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 17150 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 02:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2003 02:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 02:39:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18oaRD-000535-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:39:51 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oaR7-00052m-00; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:39:45 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.intrex.net ([209.42.192.250]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oaR0-00052b-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:39:38 -0800 Received: from craig [209.42.200.67] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id ABCB25A30056; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:39:07 -0500 To: Subject: [lojban] Re: Any (was: Nick will be with you shortly) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:39:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20030228023314.GA26219@allusion.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.67] X-archive-position: 4210 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ragnarok@pobox.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "Craig" Reply-To: ragnarok@pobox.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> >> >> > But "mi djica lo mikce" is true under different circumstances than >> >> >> > "mi djica mikce". It's clearer if you translate to english; >> >> >> > the first: There is a doctor (some doctors) that I need. The >> >> >> > second: I need any doctor(s). >> >> >> >> >> >> Are you trying to say "n'importe quel"? I think the way to say this is >> >> "lo >> >> >> mikce", where "" is some discursive in UI, though I'm not sure >> which. >> >> >> >> >That was xod's argument. "lo da'icu'i mikce", etc. >> >> >> >> >However this still doesn't solve the problem. "lo mikce" has to >> >> >be the same as "da poi mikce". "I need some doctor" or "There is >> >> >a doctor that I need". It cannot do "I need any doctor". >> >> >> >> What you think 'lo mikce' means, re-expressed with das, is 'pada poi >> mikce'. >> >> 'da poi mikce' (= 'lo mikce') means ANY da that mikce. Similar to how 'da >> na >> >> prane prenu' means 'nobody is perfect', not 'somebody is imperfect'. >> >> >No, I think it means su'o da. Forgive me for forgetting to put (s) >> >things on the glosses, I figured people would realize that. Anyway, >> >"I need a doctor" or "I need any doctor" in English talks about >> >*one* doctor. You can also say "I need two doctors" (or "any two >> >doctors") with the Any meaning. "da poi mikce" means "There is a >> >thing which is a mikce, and for which ...". >> >> mi nitcu da. Let's start with that. Do you at least agree that there isn't a >> specific thing which I mean that I need? >> Okay, good. Now onto da poi mikce. That means that the da must be a doctor, >> but ads no further restrictions. >> Now onto lo. mi nitcu lo mikce = mi nitcu da poi mikce. We already agreed on >> that one. >> Therefore, I am expressing Any with this usage. QED. >No. What follows is that "there isn't a specific thing you need" >with that usage. That doesn't make it Any. If "mi nitcu lo mikce" means that I need a doctor, but that there is no specific doctor that I need, then I need any doctor. If that's not what Any means to you, then perhaps you could define it for us to better demonstrate what your problem is.