From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Feb 28 07:12:59 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 28 Feb 2003 15:12:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 23619 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 15:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2003 15:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 15:12:53 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18omBx-0006PG-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:12:53 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18omBf-0006NR-00; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:12:35 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhc27.chch.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.237.27] helo=thedave ident=0) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18omBN-0006MJ-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:12:17 -0800 Received: from thedave.homelinux.org (IDENT:1001@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thedave (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h1SFCpK7005721 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:12:51 GMT Received: from localhost (martin@localhost) by thedave.homelinux.org (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) with ESMTP id h1SFCovC005718 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:12:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: thedave.homelinux.org: martin owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:12:50 +0000 (GMT) X-X-Sender: martin@thedave.homelinux.org To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Any (was: Nick will be with you shortly) In-Reply-To: <20030228143808.GA29375@allusion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4216 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mbays@freeshell.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Martin Bays From: Martin Bays Reply-To: mbays@freeshell.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Jordan DeLong wrote: > On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 12:59:32AM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Jordan DeLong wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 09:39:07PM -0500, Craig wrote: > [...] > > > > If "mi nitcu lo mikce" means that I need a doctor, but that there is no > > > > specific doctor that I need, then I need any doctor. If that's not what Any > > > > means to you, then perhaps you could define it for us to better demonstrate > > > > what your problem is. > > > > > > If > > > la bab. nitcu la djan. > > > and > > > la djan. mikce > > > then one can infer that > > > la bab. nitcu lo mikce > > > But you can't infer > > > la bab. nitcu mikce > > > (something like la bab. nitcu ledu'u da mikce vo'a, except that > > > you can't do that). > > > [...] > > > Your understanding of the English word "any" is not shared by me and > > Craig, for whom "any" means nonspecific. You seem to think that "any" is > > somehow specific. Or something. Anyway, Craig's narrowing process, > > starting with da (any thing), and narrowing down to da poi mikce (any > > thing that is a doctor) is canonical, and must be refuted if there are any > > objections. > > Any is not specific. "I need a doctor" (which is Any) says nothing > about which doctor, doesn't assert the existence of such a doctor, > and doesn't suggest that some doctors may suffice and other doctors > may not. > Oh dear. If I've understood your meaning of "any" correctly - you need a doctor, and what's more you need a doctor precisely because of its doctorishness, and don't care about specific identity or other properties - then this is precisely the kind of circumstance in which I'd use lo'e. I need "the typical" doctor - I need "the result of squinting over the set of all things which doctor". I'm guessing that's wrong. Anyone feel like explaining why? Thanks, Martin --- la lojban. zo'u .e'inai ro'e