From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Fri Feb 28 08:50:44 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 28 Feb 2003 16:50:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 68365 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 16:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2003 16:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 16:50:43 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18onid-0002e3-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:50:43 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oniV-0002dk-00; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:50:35 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:50:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.111]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18oniL-0002dE-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:50:25 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-59-229.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.59.229]) by lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B554E1EFC5 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:49:52 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: Any (was: Nick will be with you shortly) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:49:47 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030228032536.GA27053@allusion.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 4224 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jordan: > Someone like And or Nick or Xorxes is more likely to be able > to give a better definition of Any than I, Without meaning to endorse that, let me make a couple of points. 1. We have been using "Any" as a gloss for a particular interpretation; one shouldn't get too hung up on details of the English word 'Any'. 2. That said, English 'any' usually means '_da_ such that _da_ is within the scope of some particular element of meaning', i.e. a narrow-scope existential quantifier. 3. Changing examples from "need a doctor" to "need a dictionary of Lojban" might help to bring out the contrast between the readings. It is not true that "there is a(n actual) dictionary of Lojban that I need to have", but it is true that "I need there to be a(n actual) dictionary of Lojban that I have". 4. A predicate logic analysis of the two readings would normally differentiate them using propositionalism (as captured by my gloss of "need there to be a dictionary" instead of just "need a dictionary"), but there are some cases where propositionalism will not easily work, e.g. "Nick described a dictionary of Lojban". 5. Prior to its current lull, the Jboske discussion had established the range of meanings that the gadri system ought to be able to express, and the discussion was well into a stage of considering how, if at all, the current gadri system could be palatably revised or further specified so that it could express this range of meanings. Nick is fairly optimistic that he can come up with a scheme that expresses this range of meanings and that he can sell to Lojban conservatives. --And.