Subject: [lojban] Re: Any (was: Nick will be with you shortly)

From: Invent Yourself <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:42:45 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:21:58PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote:
> > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > > And as I said to Craig, no, I don't. I agree that there exists some
> > > thing that you need. The scope of your need is still undefined.
> >
> >
> > What can I say? It's wrong. Using da to mean something that you have
> > in mind would make da specific. And it would make lo specific. But lo
> > is not specific. I think even Jordan would agree with this; he once
> > tried to convince me that even when da was limited to refer to a
> > single item, it STILL isn't specific!
> >
> >
> > > You never answered my question, by the way. Do you believe that "da
> > > poi prenu zo'u da viska la djim." means that any human, including
> > > the blind ones, can see Jim?
> >
> >
> > If I endorse Craig's post, and Craig shows that the poi clause limits
> > the valid range of da, then therefore I agree with you here. So yes:
> > explicitly-given context circumscribes the range of da. I didn't
> > answer it because that's not what's being disputed here.
>
> You've just contradicted yourself. Either context constrains da or it
> doesn't. If I need a doctor because I have cataracts, an
> otolaryngologist is of little use.

But then, you don't ask for lo mikce. You ask for le mikce, or for lo
mikce poi li'o. "I need any doctor that can deal with cataracts". You
don't have a specific doctor or set of doctors in mind, though.

> Saying that the context must be explicit violates a long-held tenet of
> lojban: that unfilled places can contain anything that continues to make
> the sentence valid (in this case we're talking about the x3 of nitcu).

Chapter six makes it clear to me that lo is used for, and only for
non-specific descriptions. I think we can filter out stupid choices for da
with context. For instance, a dead doctor is nonetheless lo mikce, but I
don't want a corpse giving me a checkup. So, I think that da is
nonspecific across members of the set that's been filtered for ridiculous
values.

-- 
What would Jesus bomb?