From xod@thestonecutters.net Sun Mar 02 16:38:46 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 3 Mar 2003 00:38:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 91819 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2003 00:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2003 00:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2003 00:38:36 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18pdyW-0001Ue-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:38:36 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18pdyM-0001UL-00; Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:38:26 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18pdyG-0001U5-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:38:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h230cNt32154 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:38:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:38:23 -0500 (EST) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: The Any thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030302192515.O29805-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4271 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, And Rosta wrote: > It seems to me (tho I might be mistaken), that the disagreement > arises from different interpretations of "I need any doctor", > which, after all, is not a fully normal English sentence. > > On xod & Craig's side, it is certainly true that "mi nitcu lo > mikce" is true if, for any doctor, I need them, and "mi viska > lo mlatu" is true if, for any cat, I see it. Funny, when you use "for any" like this, it seems to sound like "each and every". > But "I need any doctor" is being used by Robin & Jordan (and > Nick) to paraphrase a different meaning, one equivalent to > > 1. I need there to be a lojban dictionary > > whereas "mi nitcu lo lojbo valsi cukta" means > > 2. There is a lojban dictionary that I need (there to be) > > -- plainly these two sentences have different truth conditions. > > So instead of arguing whether "lo" means "any" (my Expert Opinion > is that the answer is 25% Yes and 75% No!), I would ask Craig > & xod to try to translate "I need a lojban dictionary" into > Lojban, given that the normal reading of that sentence is > equivalent to 1 and not to 2. mi nitcu lo da'i [cu'i] lojbo valcku I have, of course, no preferences within the set (ha ha) of Lojban dictionaries. If there were more than one, you can give me any of them. I surely don't have any Lojban dictionaries in mind, and so if le refers to in-mind groups, I can't use it. Therefore I am logically forced to use lo, and that's the end of the discussion. da'i means hypothetical, da'icu'i might mean hypothetical-or-not. (I don't really care to start a sub thread about da'i.) Or were you asking for a rendering of the command "Make a Lojban Dictionary!"? As in "I need it, but it doesn't exist, and so you are obliged to get cracking on it." -- What would Jesus bomb?