Subject: [lojban] Re: The Any thread

From: Invent Yourself <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:01:23 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, jjllambias2000 <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
> Suppose that the folllowing are all true:
>
> la meris pendo la djan noi mikce
> la meris na pendo la fred noi mikce
> la meris na pendo la alis noi mikce
>
> Can we assert, based on that info, that:
>
> la meris pendo lo mikce
>
> ? Yes, Mary is friend to at least one doctor, namely
> John. That of course does not mean that Mary is friend to
> any doctor.

"Is Mary the friend of any doctor at all? Does she have any friends who
are doctors?"

"Why, yes, she is the friend of a doctor."

> If someone asks:
>
> xu la meris pendo lo mikce
>
> We have to answer {go'i}, she is the friend of at
> least one doctor.

How one can be a friend to a nonspecific doctor is hard to imagine.

> Now, let's say that:
>
> la meris nitcu la djan noi mikce
> la meris na nitcu la fred noi mikce
> la meris na nitcu la alis noi mikce
>
> Can we assert, based on the above info, that
>
> la meris nitcu lo mikce
>
> ? Does Mary need at least one doctor? Yes, she does
> need at least one doctor. If someone asks:
>
> xu la meris nitcu lo mikce
>
> we will answer {go'i}. She needs at least one doctor,
> namely John.

But the John-ness is lost when you use lo mikce. Under what circumstances,
assuming cooperative communication, would you say such a thing? Only if
there was no specific doctor identity to work with. Had there been a
specific doctor she needed, you surely would have used le instead.

> That again does not at all mean that
> Mary needs any doctor, all we are saying is that there
> is at least one that she needs.
>
> The way Xod and Craig want to use {lo} is not how it has
> been defined, but there certainly is a need for that other
> meaning. I use {lo'e} for that other meaning, but I would
> favour changing {lo} for that function, because it is
> very frequent and basic. That would change the meaning
> of {la meris pendo lo mikce} to "Mary is friendly to doctors",
> a generic statement, rather than the concrete meaning "Mary
> is friend to at least one doctor" that it has now.

lo'e is a little heavy-handed. It achieves its nonspecificity by stripping
all distinction away from the doctors. "friendly to doctors" doesn't
necessarily apply to nontypical doctors, whereas lo mikce does include
them

-- 
What would Jesus bomb?