From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Wed Mar 05 04:07:13 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_1); 5 Mar 2003 12:07:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 2511 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2003 12:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2003 12:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2003 12:07:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18qXg0-0004EX-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:07:12 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18qXfq-0004EE-00; Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:07:02 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from com1.uclan.ac.uk ([193.61.255.3]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18qXfb-0004E5-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:06:48 -0800 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:30:20 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:08:08 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:07:46 +0000 To: lojban-list Subject: [lojban] Re: The Any thread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline X-archive-position: 4348 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: And Rosta Reply-To: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin xod: #On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, And Rosta wrote: [...] #> 1. I need there to be a lojban dictionary #> #> whereas "mi nitcu lo lojbo valsi cukta" means #> #> 2. There is a lojban dictionary that I need (there to be) [...] #> I would ask Craig #> & xod to try to translate "I need a lojban dictionary" into #> Lojban, given that the normal reading of that sentence is #> equivalent to 1 and not to 2. # # mi nitcu lo da'i [cu'i] lojbo valcku Given an ontology whereby {da da'i broda} is true for any value of broda, your solution is close to the solution that the Jboske discussion settled on (i.e. Kinds), but with certain key differences: "mi nitcu lo da'i [cu'i] lojbo valcku" "There is a (real or imaginary) jbodictionary I need" is not falsified by "mi nitcu lo da'i [cu'i] lojbo valcku na ku" "There is a (real or imaginary) jbodictionary I don't need" whereas "I need a book" (on the so-called ANY/'opaque' reading) IS falsified by "There is a (real or imaginary) book that I don't need". --And.