From ragnarok@pobox.com Wed Mar 05 14:21:40 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_1); 5 Mar 2003 22:21:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 28743 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2003 22:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2003 22:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2003 22:21:39 -0000 Received: from craig [209.42.200.67] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id A86E3D9C004E; Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:21:34 -0500 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Re: The Any thread Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:21:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200303052208.RAA00948@mail.reutershealth.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.67] From: "Craig" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> Umm... no. "I need a doctor." I have a need which will be filled if I am >> attended to by Dr. Foo. However, I could equally well accept the services of >> Dr. Bar, so I don't actually need Dr. Foo. I need a doctor, according to my >> view of lo, is "mi nitcu lo mikce". However, "zasti falo mikce poi mi ke'a >> na nitcu" is still true - I don't actually need Dr. Foo since Dr. Bar can >> treat me. >Thinking about doctors, IMHO, just confuses the issue. Take "I need a box >with dimensions 2m by 2m by 2cm." You can need such a thing perfectly well >even if there is no such box anywhere. This is why needing involves an >implied proposition: you cannot, e.g. see such a box unless there is such a >box (neglecting visual illusions, where you see the *appearance* of a box >but not the box itself). But, doctors do exist, and if they didn't there wouldn't be one I don't need. And claims that the existence of a specific doctor that I don't need falsifies my reading of "mi nitcu lo mikce", but I claim the existence of a specific doctor that I do need would falsify it, and e is just misinterpreting.