From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Mar 11 20:38:14 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_1); 12 Mar 2003 04:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 92253 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2003 04:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2003 04:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2003 04:38:14 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18sy0K-0006ip-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:38:12 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18sy08-0006iI-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:38:00 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18sy00-0006i6-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:37:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:37:52 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Another major jbovlaste update. Message-ID: <20030312043752.GB20027@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <200303112220.27499.phma@webjockey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-archive-position: 4442 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 10:45:53PM -0500, Craig wrote: > >> > I don't think it's wrong to have "butter source" in the > >> > dictionary, but a lot of the definitions of attitudinals are > >> > wrong. {ii}, for instance, should not be translated "fear". It's > >> > something you say when you're afraid, not something you say to > >> > talk about fear. Similarly, cruelty is kamkusru, not uunai. > >> > >> So what would you use instead? > > >Hard to say, as English doesn't have much of an attitudinal system. > >Maybe "cruelty;attitudinal"? Hopefully that'll keep people from using > >the attitudinal to translate a noun. > > There are two types of people relevant here: Those who know enough > Lojban to recognize that uunai is a cmavo compound and thus must be an > attitudinal indicating the cruelty, and those who don't know enough > Lojban to get any benefit from a jbovlaste-like system. That is to > say, if you would use cmavo to translate nouns, you aren't going to be > producing a good translation with jbovlaste anyway. Jbovlaste is NOT a > substitute for learning the language, and should not be designed to > cater to those who may use it as one. All true. But expressing .ii as "expression of fear" is reasonable, I think. -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. .i le pamoi velru'e zo'u crepu le plibu taxfu .i le remoi velru'e zo'u mo .i le cimoi velru'e zo'u ba'e prali .uisai http://www.lojban.org/ *** to sa'a cu'u lei pibyta'u cridrnoma toi